Heat Pump Water Heater in cold climate with ...

Post by yankees60 » Sun Sep 10, 2:34 pm

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WoostaGal wrote: &#;

Sun Sep 10, 8:57 am

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Greetings.

I am in the process of evaluating replacing my existing oil burner/steam radiators with a ductless heat pump (HP). Are there folks living in a cold climate (I'm in Northeast) on the forum who have replaced BOTH their water heater and their home heating system with HP techology?

From what I've read, there are two types of HP for water heating. One type is installed in the cellar and extracts heat from the cold air in the cellar. I'm concerned about how that would contribute to reducing the heat in my cellar during the winter if the oil heating system is removed. The other type of HP water heater is installed outside. In the winter, it may switch to electric resistance heating if outdoor temps get too cold, which I imagine could be fairly expensive.

I'm probably going to install a HP ductless heating system before the end of the year and leave my oil burner in place both as a backup and to heat my water. I want to see how things go for a couple winters with the temp in the cellar before I would remove the water heater and switch to a HP water heater. I may decide to just leave the oil burner in place permanently for water heating and as a backup.

I'm interested in hearing about the experiences of Bogleheads in cold climates who have installed both a HP heating system and HP water heater. Did you install the HP water heater in your cellar? How much do you think it lowered the temp in your cellar in the winter? Have you gone through a very cold winter with this configuration? How cold does your cellar get in winter?

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience.

Greetings.I am in the process of evaluating replacing my existing oil burner/steam radiators with a ductless heat pump (HP). Are there folks living in a cold climate (I'm in Northeast) on the forum who have replaced BOTH their water heater and their home heating system with HP techology?From what I've read, there are two types of HP for water heating. One type is installed in the cellar and extracts heat from the cold air in the cellar. I'm concerned about how that would contribute to reducing the heat in my cellar during the winter if the oil heating system is removed. The other type of HP water heater is installed outside. In the winter, it may switch to electric resistance heating if outdoor temps get too cold, which I imagine could be fairly expensive.I'm probably going to install a HP ductless heating system before the end of the year and leave my oil burner in place both as a backup and to heat my water. I want to see how things go for a couple winters with the temp in the cellar before I would remove the water heater and switch to a HP water heater. I may decide to just leave the oil burner in place permanently for water heating and as a backup.I'm interested in hearing about the experiences of Bogleheads in cold climates who have installed both a HP heating system and HP water heater. Did you install the HP water heater in your cellar? How much do you think it lowered the temp in your cellar in the winter? Have you gone through a very cold winter with this configuration? How cold does your cellar get in winter?Thanks in advance for sharing your experience.

I live in Western Massachusetts (so in the Northeast. Cold but not as cold as upper Maine.)

I installed an 80 gallon GE heat pump water heater in my basement in December . It cost $1,000 with a Mass Save $1,000 rebate. So it only cost me (net) the sales taxes. It cost me an additional $400 to have installed.

Two or three years ago the fan stopped working so that it was no longer working in heat pump mode but, instead, the most expensive mode -- electric resistance. It had a 10 year warranty but after a year a two it was only for parts. I got the replacement fan for free under the warranty and a year ago today I had the new fan installed at a labor cost of $150. It's been working fine since and the unit after repair consumes about 30% of the electricity it had been. Therefore proof that heat pump hot water heaters are much less costly to run than traditional electric water heaters (which mine was with the fan not working).

Shortly after I investigated going with mini-splits. A question I had with all the vendors was now that I'd not be using my oil burner which was putting some heat into my basement (not much since I kept the thermostat at 60, which resulted in my oil burner not running all that much (averaged about 200 gallons of oil used per heating season) ... would I have to worry about my basement getting too cold and running into the risk of water pipes freezing.

The minority opinion (2 of them) wanted to install a mini-split in my basement. The great majority thought it'd not be an issue. So I did not have one installed in the basement.

Here are my daily morning (around 7:30 AM) basement temperatures from 12/30/22 (the day I went live with the mini-splits and the last day my oil burner has run) to 3/1/23 -- the last time the temperature was under 45 degrees (though it says %, the % sign stand for degrees):

47.1%
47.3%
48.0%
47.8%
47.7%
48.2%
48.7%
48.7%
48.9%
47.7%
47.5%
47.8%
47.3%
47.3%
47.3%
47.5%
46.9%
46.8%
46.4%
47.3%
47.7%
47.7%
47.8%
46.9%
47.3%
46.8%
46.4%
47.1%
47.5%
46.4%
46.6%
46.8%
47.5%
45.5%
45.1%
45.1%
40.8%
41.4%
43.0%
43.3%
44.2%
44.8%
45.1%
45.3%
45.5%
45.5%
46.2%
46.4%
50.4%
49.3%
46.8%
46.8%
47.1%
47.3%
46.9%
46.9%
46.4%
44.8%
44.4%
44.4%
45.1%
44.8%

When I initially looked at mini-split / heat pumps for heating a few years prior the technology had not evolved to provide heat if the temperature outside was too low. Therefore you'd need to maintain a backup system. I saw no savings in maintaining two heating systems so I did not pursue them at that time.

But, then, just a few years later the technology rapidly evolved so that they could work at much lower temperatures so that you did not need a backup heating system.

I was eligible for a huge rebate for buying them / having them installed. One of the stipulations for the rebate is that I pledged to not use my prior heating (i.e., oil) system except in either an emergency or extreme circumstance. As I stated above after the mini-splits when live the oil burner switch went off and has remained off.

I bought three Mitsubishi units. 6,000 BTU for each of the two bedrooms and 18,000 BTU for the living room. When I questioned the vendor why the 18,000 instead of a 15,000 he told me that it'd have better capacity to handle the extreme cold.

I have an Emporia electricity monitoring system which allows me to see all my electricity usage for every one of my circuits on both an instantaneous or historical basis. All of those mini-splits from date of installation until now have consumed a total of less than 900 kWh of electricity. Note. I obtained them strictly for heating purposes. I am NOT an air conditioning person and, thus, none of them have run since April.

I live in Western Massachusetts (so in the Northeast. Cold but not as cold as upper Maine.)I installed an 80 gallon GE heat pump water heater in my basement in December . It cost $1,000 with a Mass Save $1,000 rebate. So it only cost me (net) the sales taxes. It cost me an additional $400 to have installed.Two or three years ago the fan stopped working so that it was no longer working in heat pump mode but, instead, the most expensive mode -- electric resistance. It had a 10 year warranty but after a year a two it was only for parts. I got the replacement fan for free under the warranty and a year ago today I had the new fan installed at a labor cost of $150. It's been working fine since and the unit after repair consumes about 30% of the electricity it had been. Therefore proof that heat pump hot water heaters are much less costly to run than traditional electric water heaters (which mine was with the fan not working).Shortly after I investigated going with mini-splits. A question I had with all the vendors was now that I'd not be using my oil burner which was putting some heat into my basement (not much since I kept the thermostat at 60, which resulted in my oil burner not running all that much (averaged about 200 gallons of oil used per heating season) ... would I have to worry about my basement getting too cold and running into the risk of water pipes freezing.The minority opinion (2 of them) wanted to install a mini-split in my basement. The great majority thought it'd not be an issue. So I did not have one installed in the basement.Here are my daily morning (around 7:30 AM) basement temperatures from 12/30/22 (the day I went live with the mini-splits and the last day my oil burner has run) to 3/1/23 -- the last time the temperature was under 45 degrees (though it says %, the % sign stand for degrees):47.1%47.3%48.0%47.8%47.7%48.2%48.7%48.7%48.9%47.7%47.5%47.8%47.3%47.3%47.3%47.5%46.9%46.8%46.4%47.3%47.7%47.7%47.8%46.9%47.3%46.8%46.4%47.1%47.5%46.4%46.6%46.8%47.5%45.5%45.1%45.1%40.8%41.4%43.0%43.3%44.2%44.8%45.1%45.3%45.5%45.5%46.2%46.4%50.4%49.3%46.8%46.8%47.1%47.3%46.9%46.9%46.4%44.8%44.4%44.4%45.1%44.8%When I initially looked at mini-split / heat pumps for heating a few years prior the technology had not evolved to provide heat if the temperature outside was too low. Therefore you'd need to maintain a backup system. I saw no savings in maintaining two heating systems so I did not pursue them at that time.But, then, just a few years later the technology rapidly evolved so that they could work at much lower temperatures so that you did not need a backup heating system.I was eligible for a huge rebate for buying them / having them installed. One of the stipulations for the rebate is that I pledged to not use my prior heating (i.e., oil) system except in either an emergency or extreme circumstance. As I stated above after the mini-splits when live the oil burner switch went off and has remained off.I bought three Mitsubishi units. 6,000 BTU for each of the two bedrooms and 18,000 BTU for the living room. When I questioned the vendor why the 18,000 instead of a 15,000 he told me that it'd have better capacity to handle the extreme cold.I have an Emporia electricity monitoring system which allows me to see all my electricity usage for every one of my circuits on both an instantaneous or historical basis. All of those mini-splits from date of installation until now have consumed a total of less than 900 kWh of electricity. Note. I obtained them strictly for heating purposes. I am NOT an air conditioning person and, thus, none of them have run since April.

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